West Ham United; beware the turning of the moderate supporter!

Today, a guest post from BOMAD. I have known Bomad as a personal friend for many years and we have often locked horns as he is naturally much more circumspect, more grown up, more of a pragmatist than I. He supported Allardyce until very near to the end, for example. He has long been a supporter of Messrs Gold and Sullivan in terms of his view that they ‘saved’ our club when it was in grave danger of going into administration. So, when I got a call last week to say that he’s had enough and felt compelled to write and email to me that he’d appreciate if I tidied up and I could feel free to post as a thread, I grew intrigued. Here’s the result:

I am finding my current mood being dominated by our club; sadness.
I for one dislike our new home but this is probably due to the fact
I hate my seats – band 2 admittedly but I require binoculars and oxygen
when I sit there.  A different seat and I admit I may get to like
the place.


Let me get straight to the point; where has my West Ham gone? I am forever grateful to our owners for saving us and I firmly believe that if they hadn’t have stepped in we would have gone bust but for Ms Brady to state that we are ‘customers’ last week and not
mention us as fans is a step too far for me. I am crestfallen that brand West Ham seems to have become just a business.

Even as a business though, how well are we being run? I find transfer windows particularly stressful with our name being thrown around like confetti in connection with every conceivable deal there is.

And this is where a huge problem lies; we seem to bid for players but do
not want to pay the going rate. Defoe for instance; Hogan and
Dembele too.  So I implore them, “Owners, if you want a player – PAY the going rate!”

Everton have just paid £11m for the Charlton kid – and yes they got
him quickly and without fuss because they paid what was necessary. It isn’t hard and the name of the club is not splattered across the social media networks for all and sundry to laugh at whilst failing to land any ‘targets’.
Then we do things like going back for a player that we could have picked up on a
free.  Ayew, for example. We didn’t sign him 18 months ago because of his alleged salary demands but decided he was then worth £20.5M just 6 months ago with a
slightly lower wage? Who (tf) is making these decisions? If we are indeed
now a business – sack them for goodness’ sake! (I hear we have been offered £20M for
him this week – TAKE it so that we can pay out the money required
for the players we need). I also happen to know we could have acquired Defoe before he went to Sunderland and he was gagging to come back to us!!!

The summer transfer window was a complete shambles and January HAS
to be better or the people in charge need to be removed. Henry has a
lot to prove – if, of course, he actually is charge of recruitment. Last year
we got lucky perhaps with Payet and Lanzini – this year????
We still need a right back and goal scorer and have needed these 2
positions filled for more than 3 transfer windows consecutively – what is going on?
To be honest, I preferred it when we did our business quietly and efficiently even
when we had no money although if I am very much mistaken did we not
have the world’s most expensive goalkeeper back in the day when we
were run like a football club.

Oh how times change. But the owners of our great club need to understand that although football is now a business it is still our football club and we would like to be known as fans not customers and that if they, the owners really are also fans, things need to be done in the right way. And that means not doing everything on the cheap, for a start (we have
just bid a mere £3m for Snodgrass! Obviously been told where to stick it. What a laughing stock we have become.

I did the stadium tour recently; Its not a home for football and everything is so clearly done on a budget – do the tour yourself and you’ll know what I mean.

Sorry rant over.

BOMAD

  • bubbles

    Correct…could not agree more …. REDBULL HAMMERS please

  • Daniel Connolly

    While I agree with nearly all,I don’t buy into our owners saved us from going bust,premier league clubs don’t go bust,there is to much money around football

    • kevin mousley

      We weren’t PL at the time; what about Leeds, Forest,Blackburn, Derby ..All top tier champs in living memory..Two of them PL champs ..All in debt spiral and still screwed. We really were every so close to going bump..Our debt pile was more than three times our income and assets put together. Yes, the owners lack class and are a bit like the Clampits who stumbled on a posh do. It’s becoming clear that the mixture of Del Boy approach to transfers and rattling their diamanté at the cheap seats, is in danger of derailing us and we are already a laughing stock but like SA they did serve a key purpose in what was the darkest episode in our club history. Trouble is they hold all the cards ..or more accurately our debt..and unless WHUFC fans manage something no set of fans ever have..that is to empty the stadium on match days..They are with us for the foreseeable. It could be that their lives are made so unpleasant that they’ll sell but I doubt it.

      • Daniel Connolly

        we were premier league when they took over and none of those clubs you mentioned have gone bust even though they haven’t been in premier league for a number of seasons and by all accounts even with sale of Upton Park and extra money from sky and match day we are still in similar debt to when they took over,it’s just the debt is to them and not a bank and we pay them interest on that money of 7%

        • kevin mousley

          Apologies you are right; we were in PL when they took over but better to owe folk who run the club than banks or finance companies who dont. As to Leeds etc. all still going concerns but shadows of fomer selves. I add Wolves and Portsmouth to that list. Leeds are a huge club but for they’ve struggled badly now for a decade or more..had we gone for Fernandes over the Davids I have no doubt we’d have faded too.

        • razorwine1

          Spot on Daniel any business even ones doing well it pays to hold debt tax reasons. They are good at business and like you say the amount of cash coming in to the premier is enourmous for clubs now. You only have to look at bournmouth punching above thier weight at 10k attendance and lucky to hold on to a good coach in howe. Once he leaves its curtains but at present they can hold thier own financially. I wanted tony in at the time but hindsight tells me maybe this lot have more punch than him although he has plans for new ground and taking things slower which who knows in time could be a better policy? Imo

  • Goatygav

    Great piece Bomad. Just like to add that, in my opinion, I think that David Sullivan and his sons interfere with team matters too much. This ALWAYS goes wrong in any football club. They really need to step off and leave team affairs. Not sure about how involved David Gold is but I suspect he takes more of a back seat and keeps the right balance of involvement.

    • razorwine1

      Another sensible summing up gav I seem to think your on your own here now with so many frustrated posters blaming everything but the real problem. As for bomad supporting allardyce really? The owners didn’t save our club but to be fair after allowing the fact of their huge ego and the fact their in business to make money like the Tory Brady who wouldn’t understand working class values and put club support over the years from founding it to last season at boleyn we had probably the best option in them buying in to us. Never wanted them from beginning but with hindsight the other options imo have turned out worse.

      • Headmaster1

        Gav’s on “his own” on here? You sure about that Razor? 🙂

        • razorwine1

          Sorry headmaster forgot You and that’s all mind don’t see any others around my son. Certainly not looking at the real cause s of this season instead of blaming it on one thing or person only. Combination of quite a few things including bad loans that nobody except maybe now and leaving feg on a freebie which will earn some sell on value has found a bit of form. Always this season should have been looked at as a settling one from last one not champions league contenders imo.

  • Beasticus Maximus

    I can relate to much of this. I haven’t been to the new stadium yet, I feel no urge to do so, The loss of the Bo is still a raw and raging sore to me. So I can’t really comment on what goes on in the ground.
    I have close ties to the guys here and a few others too and what I hear from them worries me, as does the attitude of the club towards it’s fans. My son doesn’t want to go any more, at least until what he sees as “the mess” the owners have made is tidied up.
    But then I have never really beleived the two Daves were in it for anything other than money. They are extraordinarily weathy businessmen and they didnt get there on the back of sentimentality.So, comments like “I have never taken a penny in pay from the club” mean very little as neither of them need to. Do they both have an affinity to the club, probably. Is it their overriding motivator, I don’t think so.
    All our business seems to be done in public now, no cards close to the chest, no quiet confidence, no apparent accumen for what they seek to do. They moved us from our home to the olymic stadium and that seems to be job done.
    Being labelled a customer upset me too, what a thoughtless thing to say, Lady Brady seems to be quite comfortable looking down on us from her lofty perch.
    No one can do the club respect unless they respect the fans, who, incidentally, will still be there long after the Gold, sullivan, Brady era is over.
    Not so much a football club anymore, now just another corporate entity.

  • Roshi

    Good post Bomad, but to be fair nothing that I have not been saying on here for a long time. We have lost our way as a club for the people, we are now part of a tacky business empire that has sold out its mojo, it will never return. I look at clubs with sensible size football stadiums like Southampton and they seem to compete okay. The move was about money, the transfers are all about the “deal” not the benefit. Basically the place is a bleeding shambles.
    Sold out season tickets for the 17/18 season, I don’t think so and to be honest they don’t deserve it.

  • The two Ds are missing from our club.
    I refer, of course, to Dignity and Discretion.

  • Tom

    I always smile at those who were such ardent haters of BFS, whilst the football was dire a key ingredient he brought to the club was taming the constant media whoring of our Board … he also refused to play Sullivan’s constant South American punts for which I admired him for … our owners are clueless and classless … more suited to running Millwall than any decent club … history shows they never change and never will unfortunately…

    I find it amazing that Red Bull came out and said they never made any inquiries or offer for the club … yet Sullivan is there saying they did … then on the club’s website we have the ‘insider’ quoting who we’ve made bids for only for clubs to deny or laugh at the derisory offer … a shameful shambles …

    As for the stadium, they were sold a pup, it was better in RWC mode and closer to a more narrow pitch … it’s run by a company on a budget to make profit and a local authority clueless and spineless to do what is right and just let the club run it directly … the entire migration is scandalous … with not an ounce of accountability that will take years to recover from

    • Headmaster1

      Christ, you must piss yourself on a regular basis when I refer to BFS then 😂 .

      • Tom

        Never HM, we all hated him and what he stood for but if there was a positive about him it was he refused to be pushed around by David Sullivan and his fellow Board Members … the media whoring stopped, the save our season bollox disappeared and the focus remained on the pitch and signing what we needed not who Sullivan wanted to sign even though when he did BFS never played them out of principal …

        • Headmaster1

          Cheers Tom, I guess even I must concede that much

    • razorwine1

      The geezer is a f–king lousy coach egotistical thief and I hope he gets relegated to stop this media idea his a saviour of relegation threatened clubs. Other than that I don’t hate him but embarrased he was ever at our club employed by gold and sully. Oh lanzini wasn’t a bad punt so not all south Americans are crap mate.

      • Tom

        Steady Razor, I hope you are well, BFS was not for me but I guess the Army background is difficult to shrug off as you always look to find positives from negative situations … BFS’s football was dire but he managed to keep the muppet show quiet …

        • razorwine

          Hi tom my son hope civvy life is good for you after army life. Great respect for the sevices couldnt do it myself mind but unfortuanatly with people like trump and rich clowns running african countrys and of course egotistical putin in russia the world is a dangerous place nowadays and wars will be popping up everywhere so we need you boys eh. Anyway get your point mate but until sully realises his money doesnt make him a coach or a scout but only an opinion on things the better not sure it will though. To be fair to him he wanted bony allardyce didnt he got sakho allardyce didnt and was stopped rightly so from getting in his slow no sell on players that only just got us up and survive playing the worst football i have seen over the years sending everyone to sleep. Anyway dont hate the guy just let him hang himself like he did from the england job.

          • Tom

            Razor, it is four years now I’ve been a civvie and jeez its been an interesting chapter … life is good though and I am settled down in Studland, Dorset for my sins … BFS did what we needed, another thing he was good at was keeping the signings to a minimum which is something I feel may missed, with Avraam the owners shipped in over a dozen and they hae just done the same again which history shows they like to do … I can see by the summer though many of them gone .. some even for a nice profit buy boy has it set us back ..

  • Guesty

    Bloody hell Bomad that’s a depressing read. It’s hard to join in the debate because everyone on here has already joined the negative theme. Respect to you for writing it tho and I hate to see an unhappy hammer.

    I like The London Stadium. I fully get why we moved there and in my humble opinion it was the right thing to do. There are things that the club can (and will) do to make the experience better but they will take time. We are there for 99 years and if you love West Ham (and let’s face it we all do) then the LS is the future and we need to embrace it because changing your club isn’t an option.

    The owners have their faults and I do wish they would learn from experience but that’s a bit like me learning to put the toilet seat down knowing it would make the wife happy! As I said the other day on here, you can’t sack the owners, they’re here to stay and personally I can’t see the point of moaning about them for the rest of my life. As I say they have their faults but I’d have them over Tan/Cardiff and that knob at Hull plus the crook at Leeds and we definitely dodged a bullet with Fernandez at QPR. I’d also have them over Abramovich and his Russian money and the Glaciers and their debt laden ManU. I also hope we never have Qatar or Chinese owners. I suppose what I’m saying is be careful what you wish for!

    Look, of course you can all hate but I just can’t see the point. I live in hope that the club puts a smile on your face again Bomad. I’m very much of the view that if things on the pitch were going better now people would be a lot more cheerful.

    That’s just my view guys I’m sorry it’s contrary to the majority on here but I start off from the position of actually liking the stadium and having respect for the owners.

    • Tom

      I don’t think anyone dislikes the owners or unappreciates them they just shoot themselves in the foot each time with their continued media whoring … they are better than many others and I don’t think too many on here would disagree but whilst you may be happy with your experience the vast majority are not … just my thoughts but I think the club were sold a pup … corporate companies have milked the stadium and delivered very little improvement on what it was and what it should be … RWC mode was superb and closer to the pitch … however simple food prices and its quality, stewarding issues, inside and out, the general respect for fans can all be addressed on most issue but the current layout will in time reduce attendances as there are not many STH’s I know looking to renew ..

      As for on the field, you reap what you sew, pay peanuts and employ monkeys or quantity over quality … why promise everything and deliver little …

      • Guesty

        Tom I do not think we disagree so much as perhaps it might seem. I did say I wish the owners would learn from their mistakes and media whoring as you call it would be high on my list of things they could change to win over less tolerant fans.

        The stadium? Well I can only speak as I find and I don’t agree the vast majority hate it. It’s just that those that hate it post on social media. My circle of mates and those sat near me and those I encounter in bars mostly like it. I do accept your experience might be different tho.

        They have already mostly addressed the standing, sitting, singers and segregation of away support issues. They are slowly sorting out stewarding and police arrests are below average for the season. All teething issues imo.

        I’ve sat in 3 different locations, the infamous block 113 (ok I stood!) the so called big kop and in the posh seats. The view was fine and the atmosphere is great when we are playing well. Chelsea was phenomenal.

        But it’s not all good I agree. If the WHUISA sort out anything I hope they get the board to act on 1) empty seats. People who bought cheap seats and attend 3 times a year and leave the seat should not be allowed to renew imo. Good riddance to them. Also some bought a ST and then plus 2 kids tickets for £99 in the knowledge their kids might go 2/3 times. Wrong and selfish in my view. 2) to and from the stadium. The herding and closed routes and the lack of West Ham familiar stuff like badges and programmes and scarfs is disappointing. Easy to change I would’ve thought. 3) I take your point re the RWC and it’s a bigger issue but something they need to work on.

        As to reaping what you sow I agree and right now above all of that above I would take them going quietly about their business and putting right the sub-standard stuff we see on the pitch. With 3-5 out the door I don’t see how the issue can’t be addressed, whether that’s successful or not is another matter.

        • Tom

          Good reply Guesty, very valid points … my own humble opinion is that what they were sold and what was delivered are very different … I understand the key architect went bust and somehow something costing £20m cost £150m by someone else … I am a firm believer that in time a new owner will buy the club and one of the key assets e will address will be to build a purpose built stadium … it might well be that after the World Athletics Championships they are actually able to do something about the track and get the main stand closer … I also see there being a redesign paid by new owners and the Goverment saying enough is enough and sacking the LLDC and spending money on Crystal Palace … none of it adds up and once the public purse gets taken away only the right financial decisions will be made …

          • Guesty

            I don’t think the existing owners or any potential rich(er) owners are going to build and relocate to a new purpose built stadium. We have a 99 year lease so to do that would involve writing a cheque for nigh on £250M, allowing for rent increases, just to hand the keys back. What is more likely is the owners, new or existing, will buy the stadium and if they can do a deal to shake off atheletics simply dig down and lower the pitch and bring the fans in. I wouldn’t dismiss Sullivan and Gold doing that by the way as buying the stadium would make very sound sense to them both as an investment but also in terms of the value of the club and thus the sale of the club.

            I reckon in 5 years time they could buy the stadium for £75M/£100M, probably less, because the owners of the stadium are clearly not making money on it are they? I’m not privy to any information but I bet it loses money every year for the next 10 years. I honestly can’t see them making money out of West Ham’s low rent what with all the stuff they pay out for. Concerts and other events might bump up the income but it will never compete with the O2. So they have 2 options; lose money year on year or bring in £XM cash now by selling the stadium to Sullivan.

            I wouldn’t be surprised if its part of Sullivan’s master plan and I’ll bet Brady is rubbing her hands together just waiting to go to the negotiating table. “So gentlemen you have a stadium that loses you a million a year and we have of for 9 months a year for the next 99 years. How about we start negotiating with you handing West Ham £20M and the keys and we take the London Stadium off your hands?” It’s not so unlikely is it?

          • Tom

            I think they would find more than enough reasons for breach of tenancy to be able to walk away … the entire migration has been a farce and for all non footballing reasons … should we play Millwall tomorrow people would get seriously hurt for one as there is no segregation anywhere .. I could go on but maybe they are looking to improve it after the World Athletics this year … either way as the anchor tenant it’s not good enough …

            As for your thoughts on picking up ownership … lots of merit there too, if anything the actual concept lock stock and dot dot dot for me and why not … only negative I have is from my time there during the Olympics I was led to believe there is no option to dig down like they did at Citeh, underneath is contaminated …

          • FrankieMacsJockstrap

            I thought it was the water table, but you may be right.

          • Guesty

            Nope they couldn’t build on contaminated land. What there is apparently is a container of contaminated waste but that isn’t an issue it could simply be picked up and relocated. Probably to a lake in Canvey lol. Do you know what tho? I think that’s a red herring as I don’t believe they would’ve built a £1BN stadium on top of a contaminated container of waste do you?

          • FrankieMacsJockstrap

            Cheers Guesty.
            Red Herring? From SuGo? Surely not!

          • Guesty

            Might be Baldricks Dead Herring on the other hand Frankie?

    • razorwine1

      Agree with you all the way guesty except maybe the owners who are definetly egocentric millionares along with Tory girl Brady have not considered the fans as much as they should have from season ticketholders being put in the right seats along with policing and getting areown stewards so important instead ofvthe morons we have at present. Other things ok can take time to address but those things are badly missing and shouldn’t be. We all need to just give time at our new home and remember I don’t know of any owner of a premier or below who isn’t taking the club they own as anything else than a business. Enourmous debts at manure for tax reasons to the club and nobody slash them off. If glaciers pull out the debt is on the club big time.

      • Guesty

        Hello Razor. Yeah get where you are coming from but I do think they’re addressing these issues and have in some cases but you know what you are right they should’ve foreseen these issues 6 months ago maybe.

        Good article here; https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2017/january/09-january/samuel-has-change

        Yeah I know it’s from a Tory rag but it’s pretty valid. Some blog sites are working themselves into a frenzy, not this one, with negative article after negative article to feed its negative posters. As Samuels says it’s gotta end otherwise our club will be gone. I think Sullivan is going to go to some lengths starting now to win back the hearts and minds of our supporters. I wish him luck as some blogging supporters want him and his board and the new stadium to fail.

        • Goatygav

          Bit of a PR cock up posting that. I know there’s a disclaimer saying it’s not the opinion of the club but there’s some really damning stuff on the piece by Martin Samuel that doesn’t paint the club in a very good light.

          • Guesty

            Do you think that Gav? I don’t I see it as a pretty honest view by a passionate West Ham fan. It’s got to stop is the conclusion. I think it needs work by the club and the fans and I thinks what MS is saying.

          • Tom

            I am shocked the club added Martin Samuels piece to the official website … it has great merit but the delusion lies with the owners … the migration was flawed, RWC mode was a better layout and the interaction over niggly little issues left too long … there is no going back but again why brag about so much and deliver so little …

          • Guesty

            The story of my love life Tom – why brag about so much and deliver so little!

          • Goatygav

            Not at all. Just really surprised that they’ve re-posted, on the official site, an opinion that the summer transfer window was a disaster. Why would an organisation do that? Even if they’ve said that it’s not necessarily their opinion it looks like they’re acknowledging the fact that they operated poorly in the Summer by putting the article up IMO.

          • Guesty

            Because they know it was a disaster Gav? They’re shipping out half of what they signed they can hardly deny it can they? I don’t know mate I see where you are coming from but I think the overall message that I get from the MS article is “this slagging needs to stop” and I agree with that. All sides have work to do.

          • Goatygav

            Agree with that. Time to get on with it.

        • razorwine

          Strange that you say bloggers supporter’s want him and board to fail as that would mean the new stadium like you say would also fail. Now correct me if im wrong but do they actually think we will return to the demolishoned boleyn or if not where else do we go? Youhave to have an alternative if you want this to fail. Eveñ new owners would have to stay there. Ok keep saying its not a football stadium and yet its a great stadium that is actually not our home yet. Were here for the long term unless you change teams to support which if your a truly hammers supporter from birth family like myself you wouldnt even think like that.Especially for me with the amount of tatts i got on my arm for them too painful for lasers.

          • Guesty

            Lol Razor it will be cheaper to chop your arm off! Without a doubt there are people out there who want West Ham and the stadium move to fail and sadly a few of those are our own. I can think of a couple of regular bloggers that openly admit that is their agenda. It is why I will not join the ISA because I am not convinced YET that their intentions are genuinely to work with the board as opposed to make their life hell. I hope Paul Christmas is genuine in his intentions to work with the owners and not simply look for constant confrontations.

            I care deeply for my club as I know the posters on this site do but for the life of me I can’t see what the constant negative threads achieve. I’m repeating myself now I know but the owners are staying and we are staying at the LS so move on doom mongers! Right I’m done preaching!! Good thread this, thanks Bomad.

  • Roshi

    Sometimes you are left baffled by just one comment, in this case a comment that you cannot believe came from a self made millionaire with a business empire around him. After publicly announcing the desire within the club to buy Jermaine Defoe, submitting a couple of bids and allowing every news media outlet to publish those details David Gold comes out with,

    “We ended our pursuit of Jermaine Defoe, because there was no resale value in him”

    He’s 34 years old for heavens sake! did they not realise his age, when did they stumble on the fact that £5M -£6M might be a daft idea, that you would be looking to move on when he was 36. Not so daft though if Defoe’s goals keep you in the Premiership. They remind me of my Grandad working his bets out over the kitchen table on a Saturday when I was a kid, moving pennies around and wondering where they would be best used to make his fortune.
    As I said before on this post , it’s about the deal not the benefit when it comes to our transfer policy, everything on the cheap with fingers crossed

    • Tom

      There was an article on WHTID about the merit of signing Zlatan on a free … it equated to no more than the Zaza deal … Zlatan already has 18 goals this season and played every game … Defoe had he wanted to come would force a move but at least sound him out first before embarrassing the club with what was market value for his age but he is currently worth £100m to Sunderland … absolutely priceless sometimes ..

      • Guesty

        I don’t think we had the option to buy Ibra there was only one place he was going and that was to Jose. Worth noting tho Ibra is 36 now, the age that Gold is questioning Defoes sell on value in 2 years time. I’d have had Ibra for £15M 2 years ago wouldn’t you?

        Simple fact is Sunderland would not see Defoe for £15M. And Roshi Gold shouldn’t tweet full stop if he stopped then we wouldn’t get fed this nonesense. Actually the world should stop bloody tweeting!

        • DevoDevo

          When you have people with the football knowledge of Gold running your club and tweeting such nonsense, it’s now wonder we’re in such a mess.

          • Philtheiron

            I’m not sure but if I remember correctly,

            but under our previous manager it was widely accepted that his policy of buying more experienced short term players with little or no resale value was financially killing the club?

            Furthermore it was widely accepted and universally popular when David Sullivan took a direct interest in transfers?

            Choosing to sign highly talented players with a real resale value.

            I further believe that this change in transfer policy was widely credited with our dramatic improvement and grown up approach in the transfer market?

            However, why we appeared to throw this tried and tested policy, where we only signed young highly talented players without fuss and media attention is quite simply beyond me.

            But the point I’m trying to make is wasn’t having a resale value was one of the cornerstones of this new policy?

            I must also add, though knowing the price we were prepared to go to would be totally inadequate to secure Defoe, and how highly the mackems rated him
            We would surely have been better of making any enquiry for the player in private.

            After you would have thought we would have learnt our lesson after trying to conduct our summers transfer business in public?

            Obviously not!

          • Roshi

            You miss the point, the point is, the first thing as a business owner that would enter your head. “£6m for a 34 year old, we’ll never sell him on”.
            Dismiss the idea and move on. Not our Dave’s, get the idea, blab about it to all and sundry…price goes up, Dave’s look stupid, club looks ridiculous and starts to sift through the lower leagues for a player with talent who we can leave in the development squad and subsequently loan out.

          • Philtheiron

            Hi mate,
            I’m sorry to disagree but surely the point was that Defoe was good value as a short term fix at the going rate for a 34yo?
            However, more consideration should have been given to the fact how desperate a position Sunderland find themselves in and how desperately they are relying on Defoe to score the goals to keep them up.
            This being the case the price then required to purchase the striker would have been unrealistic and a resale value would then come into play.
            6mill for maybe a season/ season and a half would probably been good business and any resale value could have been written off.
            However when you start talking about fees in excess of 15mill and words like priceless, you simply can’t ignore the then resale implications.

            It also must be said that if we had done our homework we would have realised just how desperate the mackems are and any inquiry was best made in private, chairman to chairman, never to see the light of day.

            Finally my other point was simply to remind some that,
            up until the summer the chairmen had been responsible for the transfer policy of only signing young talented players with a resale value, in direct response to the outcry caused by hippo head only buying old short term solutions with no hope of a resale value.

        • Tom

          The article was in relation to the Defoe conumdrum … for me Zlatan doesn’t have the legs for what we already have so whilst yes he is a great player I think we would have needed to do more rebuilding to fasciltate him …

        • Roshi

          Would that include the Trump, if so I agree 100%

          • Guesty

            It specifically includes Trump! That man is going to run the presidency via Twitter! Only in America!

    • Bomad

      That shows where we are now. We will only buy players with a sell on value – our club is now officially just a business!!! What did I say about losing its soul. David Gold did you really mean that?

      • razorwine1

        Yep he meant it of course it is like all the owners just business first policy look at manure prime example and it’s all down to the club if it goes tits up not the glacier family. Maybe abrom at Chelsea slightly better attitude but his richer than even the glaciers and nearly as rich as man city sheiks

    • razorwine1

      They do need to shut it mate don’t they!

      • Roshi

        Yep! but they won’t

  • Philtheiron

    I think that the major problem with the January window is that nobody really wants to sell.

    Clubs that are doing well don’t want to spoil their winning team and those struggling desperately want to hold onto what decent players they have.

    Consequently it is usually only the desperate who need to do business and as a result have to be prepared to offer silly money to secure players who more and likely would cost a fraction of what they would pay in January. And be more easily available in the summer to boot.

    The only other business is conducted by the more successful teams who can conduct any deals from a position of relative strength.
    After all they can afford to easily walk away and it’s often their target in a struggling team who will ultimately help push the deal over the line.

    We then find ourselves in the unenviable position that due to a combination of a terrible summers window and wretched form, of appearing more desperate than we would have liked.

    It is also clear we have more than one position that desperately needs filling and as a result we find ourselves at the mercy of the clubs of whom we are trying to buy players from.

    It has also not helped that partly due to our needing to offload before we can buy, that we do not have the financial muscle(silly money) to currently force a deal through.

    Also trying to again conduct our transfer business through the media is not helping either.

    So personally I’m not expecting very much from this window and even though we desperately need quality reinforcements in both defence and attack.
    It wouldn’t surprise me if we don’t see any significant signings in this window.

    However, if we leave it to the summers window to seriously improve the side. After enduring a seasons long struggle that this policy would almost certainly ensure, any quality improvements we would then make would be largelyvirrelevant as all our best players (Payet) will be long gone by then.

    • Guesty

      Gosh!!! A rational sensible comment on a blog! Please move away from your keyboard and phone your GP.

      You are of course correct Phil. We had a dire summer transfer window and it’s all very well Hindsight Henry and his mates slagging the board but those players didn’t look so bad at the time. Zaza was an Italian international that Juve paid £25M for and Ayew, whilst clearly over priced at £20M looked decent last season and was certainly more than a capable replacement for Moses. Nordtvielt I thought was a top freebie he was a star player for Gladbach last season getting them into the CL. Fegouli looked exciting and Calleri looked a good punt. I was excited by Tore joining us. Fernandez is a good buy. Fletcher made sense. We had Byram at fullback who I thought along with Cresswell would be great fullbacks for us for years to come. Our mistake was selling Tomkins no doubt about that as he covered at FB and CB. Based on that transfer activity I never saw us going backwards and nor did many moaning now.

      We are now in January and we have to shift out Zaza and Tore for sure. Complete rubbish them two. I hope we don’t sell Fegouli or Calari as I think they might come good. Arbeloi (he wasn’t here long enough for me to learn to spell his name!) will go to. The board and Slav have a lot of work to do. I’ll judge them on the 1st February but I think we will be fine.

      I agree that bringing no transfers in isnt an option. A quality fullback and striker is a minimum requirement. The youth isn’t ready yet either imo.

      • razorwine1

        I think feg also will come good mate as for tore and zaza nah! Good post again can’t argue with much of that! Do you notice the real moaners and staggers off don’t even post when we win or do well strange that eh?

        • Guesty

          Lol there are lots that don’t mate I know! I do wish we could begin this new year getting behind our club in the new stadium. What is there to lose? Even those that choose not to go will still support the club from their sofa or bar stool so why spend their life slagging it off?

      • Philtheiron

        Hi mate,
        Thanks for the kind words.
        Not surprisingly I’m with you with your assessment as well! Lol.
        With possibly the exception of zaza and feghouli who appear to be going to Valencia and Italy respectively I believe we should pay up the contracts of the dead wood and failures you have mentioned.

        Not only would it free up vital transfer funds but get the rubbish of our books.
        Ok a bit drastic but imo drastic times call for drastic measures.

        I like you believed that on paper the majority of the summer signings looked good or very promising on paper.

        I even sat there after the juve game thinking typical bloody Italians, always know how to find the net.
        As zaza had easily brushed Oxford aside and Cooley finished to win the match.
        Andy Carroll also looked unplayable that day as well. Just shows you what I know.

        While I appreciate that there is always an element of risk to a transfer and it is easy to be wise after the event,
        I can’t help feeling that if we had done a little more due diligence on the players we were trying to sign instead of having our heads in the marquee striker clouds, it may have turned out a little differentiy

  • AdeludedCoker

    Very sad to hear that Francois Van Der Elst has passed away.

    He was a wonderfully intelligent and creative player in the best tradition of West Ham players and one of my all time favourites.

    RIP Franky.

    • Goatygav

      Hear hear. Lovely player to watch and, as you say, completely in the tradition of the club Ade 🙂

    • BOMAD

      Yes its very sad – he was a player of flair. What a goal he scored if I remember v Spuds.

  • Roshi

    Don’t you just love the attitude of footballers now. You could see this coming from Payet, his attitude and body language has been so awful this season that I for one am not surprised by him wanting to leave in fact I will be pleased to see him go.
    The odd free kick goal, the showboating and drifting in and out of games is a luxury we cannot afford.
    We gave him his career back, enabled him to get back in the French team. His reputation was that of flashes of brilliance, inconsistency and petulance, well it was all true. Shame we didn’t cash in during the summer transfer period.
    Good riddance you sulking little S**t!

    • BOMAD

      Spot on – lets get rid and let the owners take the dosh! Oh sorry I meant spend it on the likes of Snodgrass et al.
      To be fair to Payet – would you want to play for us atm……… discuss……

    • Guesty

      Spot on Roshi pretty much what I signed on to say.

      I think winning the premiership will not happen for us this season now 🙂