Tomkins’ Future at West Ham has to be in some doubt

I have to confess to being a huge fan of James Tomkins. For me, he is the most naturally gifted, ball playing centre back we have had at the club since one Rio Ferdinand. I also rate his defensive awareness, although I know that plenty take issue with me on that score.
When Allardyce first arrived, Tomkins was a nailed on regular in the role. For a while, once James Collins was re-signed, the two of them seemed to alternate in the defensive position. Then came Allardyce’s flirtation with Tomkins in midfield which I was always heavily critical of. It was almost as though he was being set up to fail.
As time has progressed though, Collins has assumed the status of inevitable starter with Tomkins, widely thought of as a possible future international, confined to bench-warming duties.
Collins looks solid and assured. That much I will concede. His hoofs out of defence accounted for a quarter of all of our long balls on Saturday at Newcastle but he did defend impeccably it has to be said.
In the vernacular, managers fancy some players and others less so. Allardyce clearly fancies Collins. Equally clearly, he does not fancy Tomkins.
If I was James’ advisor, I think I’d be having a word in his ear.

  • Ennate

    We need decent backup for the two currently in place. I’m sure JT will get his share of games due to injury and suspension.

  • Dave watts

    Tomkins a more gifted footballer than Collins but Collins is more of a Sam player no nonsense put your body on the line block everything . Also Tomkins gambled on a fast track to the England team vie team GB at the Olympics which back fired and was left out of the starting line up of the season and that gave Collins his chance which he took Tomkins now has to wait his turn and it will come because the way Ginge plays he will get injured then show Sam how gifted he is

    • Tom

      Enate, you have a valid point over the Olympic team, BFS has not forgiven young Tomkins for going and put Country before club.

    • Academy of Football

      This is true, but Collins will walk straight back in when fit. It’s a tough call as we do have three great defenders. After all the years of dross there.

  • Tom

    There comes a time HM when the owners quite simply say no and on this count I do not see David Gold allowing the likes of Tomkins, Collison or Noble leaving anytime soon. I have no qualms thinking that had BFS been able to secure Samba from Anhzi then he would have shipped young James Tomkins out to get him, however David Gold loves the home grown talent more than he does BFS.

    As for why James Tomkins doesn’t start, well that comes down to BFS wanting lumps to keep it simple at the back. Row Z or route hoof is all that is required, it is simpple and effective. For Tomkins to thrive he needs players hungry to want the ball from him, both full backs and across midfiled, we just don’t have that because it goes against BFS’s ethos. Now before you start going at me for being negative, go back to interviews with Diorkieff and Okocha at Bolton and they will tell you the same, BFS plays percentages, he would fine players for taking shots from distance as the chances of scoring were so slim.

    Therefore the likelihood of Tomkins playing his natural game are restricted because it is seen as an area of risk. eliminate risk and you will succeed and you have more chance of success and over 38 games survival becomes easier. I have no qualms with this, I just think that with the talent at BFS’s disposal we could actually be a more effective side than the one dimensional one trick pony he shows himself to be.

    • Headmaster1

      Agree 100% Tom. Mate, I rarely accuse you of being negative. To be fair to me, the article is hardly pro Allardyce is it?

      • Tom

        HM, i never renewed my season ticket this year because I do not see things things changing away from home with or with out Downing and Carol, BFS has spent over £21m and are we any better, will we have a plan B, i just do not see it.

        I have watch BFS for many years, he has always been the opposite of what I love about football. Speak to most Bolton fans and they would rather watch football where they are then continue to watch what he served up. I watched Bolton at Upton Park in with the hundred or so Bolton fans compliments of the late Gary Speed and asked them why only a few fans travel to away games and the reply was unanimous, would you pay week in week out to watch that stuff.

        The positives of BFS are he will keep us mid table and he will keep the owners in check, this will be the pinacle of his career, a club he came too and proven unable to play the beautiful game any other way than the one we see today.

        • Headmaster1

          I have never and will never sing his name, Tom. As a person, I have a low opinion of him. I console myself with the realisation that he is a temporary custodian of my club and will at least ensure solidity and survival until the new era.

          • FloridaHammer

            Agreed HM. We have to be satisfied with survival and mediocrity until finances allow greater ambition. Would love for PDC or Bilic to be BFS’s successor.

          • Tom

            FH, the finances are there, for me we lack a clear transfer policy or strategy, we have spent £21m + and still have no goal scorer ? absurd springs to mind

          • FloridaHammer

            Agreed mate; but when was the last time West Ham had a clear transfer policy? There was clearly no strategy in replacing Carlton Cole. DG/DS/KB need to hold themselves accountable for this gross error in judgement.

    • Billythehammer

      Tomkins needs games to get into his stride when he has a run he is superb but those first few games he’s prone to a mistake (collins is prone to a few too) but as you say Tom BFS I think see’s him as a risk.

      • Tom

        I actually have both Collins and Reid in my dream team Billy, simple and effective and give their all. I just don’t see Tomkins getting much game time, confidence is a big thing for young players and I haven’t seen it in him for a while. I have to say the slating for the Van Persie goal last season was the last time I can actually remember him playing.

        • Billythehammer

          Jesus that goal to me was undefendable if thats a word it was just a fantastic goal simple as. There’s a lot of West Ham Premier League / I went to the Play off final supporters who have an opinion on Tommo.

  • bubbles

    Tomkins can go . Will never be a Priemiereship player . Coaches at Olympics could see that he is very limited … can’t pass , can’t tackle, can’t read the game . Get rid for as much as possible . He will NEVER be good enough . Can’t clean Collins boots !!

    • Headmaster1

      Contrasting sharply with your assertion of 5 minutes ago that, and I quote, “Tomkins a more gifted footballer than Collins”. You on the sauce?

    • Tom

      Really ?

      • Headmaster1

        Nope – the original post was being attributed to Ennate! I can now see that is wrong. Anywaysup, bubbles – I make you wrong there. sir.

    • kelvedonhammer

      Football all about opinions. Tomkins is a footballer who thinks about his game and wants to do more than just lump the ball. Collins puts his body on the line and I do not doubt his loyalty to the cause. However as a West Ham supporter and someone who appreciates the ball being played to feet rather than route one I have to say that IMO your assertions are wrong. !!!

    • Scott

      Somewhere near the Truth!

  • Billythehammer

    Really hope not HM remember him getting hung out to dry by Upson in the Wolves game under Zola, Tomkins had just made that awful back pass that led to one of there goals he looked crest fallen Upson as he walked past him and actually turned away from him so they didn’t make eye contact, how that man was our captain i’ll never know. After that season where he was left marking all the top strikers (remember Kevin Davies having a field day against him and Upson standing by and letting him get on with it) he had a good season although we went down, thought he was superb in the championship and really came of age. Would be a real shame if having come through all those tribulations we then sell him on for someone else to reap his obvious talent.

    • Headmaster1

      Billy, do not start me on Upson. Worst, and least deserving, West Ham United captain in living memory.

      • southiron

        Rumour has it,it was part of his contract to be captain

        • Tom

          Rumour also has it he has too start every game he is fit for, that is another long three years we have ahead of us

      • ThePower4

        Lucas Neill?

    • Tom

      Evening Billy, I remember the season and Upson all too well … it is interesting to see where Upson’s career has gone since rinsing our club of money.

      I have to say your comment on WHTID earlier did tickle me … old tantrums and tiara’s at it again I noticed, you can only imagine living with Master Dale …

      • Billythehammer

        Upson was shocking that year it seemed to me that he farmed Tomkins out to mark the key strikers so that he could protect his chances of going to the world cup. Remember him starting to mark Torres then getting rolled who marked him after that inexperienced Tomkins think Torres got 2 that day.
        As for over there my god what is he like? Then replys like it was AOS being sensitive. The thing is though mate we all say stuff spur of the moment but to me a proper person acknowledges there mistake and apologises. Since he’s started posting there again there’s been some proper crawling too from people who i thought were proper.

        • Tom

          I have many friends over their Billy that actually come over here now, Master Dale never has and never will acknowledge any wrong going, it is the nature of the beast I am afraid, you should all be grateful I give this forum will be the thought process.

          On here Matt and HM keep it simple, you say your thoughts and discuss, it gives you a different perspective and often when you take the tinted shades off you can see where they are coming from.

        • Academy of Football

          I know exactly what you mean and whom Billy.

  • GrahamAussie

    We’re gonna need Tomka when we get injuries surely?

    • Headmaster1

      Is that going to be enough for the lad, Aus? Maybe for a while. Sooner or later he is surely going to be craving first team football?

    • Tom

      GA, what were your thoughts on Clarke today, he stood their and declared knowing defeat would condemn him to the archives and the skipper of the first ever 4-0 defeat, hat off to him for actually trying to force the game.

  • GrahamAussie

    Tom and Headmaster I love watching the demise of Australian sport I will be at the Gabba with the Barmy Army in November!As for Tomka I’m not sure what has happened ?

  • Ausie John

    Y would he’s future be in doubt give him a go he is something special just needs game time and confidence its that simple l have him a future England captain

  • HammerRay

    I think Tomkins will get future chances, but I wouldn’t change anything just yet, while the current pairing are performing so well. It actually makes a nice change for a player like him not to be chucking his toys out for not being selected.
    Hopefully he’ll get a run soon and justifies his place. Competition is good after all. Nobody’s selection is guaranteed after all, (except KN obviously)! ;)

  • Essex Iron

    I can’t see Tomkins leaving. He will play as many matches by the end of the season as Collins and Ginge.

  • St Ed Hammer

    Tomkins will get plenty of game time and eventually be first choice. Sams teams are built on sound defence and he’s done well to have 3 outstanding cb,s. only saw the highlights but thought we played a great game against Newcastle am loving this west ham disciplined, hard work and great team spirit . we also play some great football how anyone can be negative about Sam is beyond me, especially where we were 2 years ago.

    • Tom

      Morning St Ed, I have said below that I didn’t think our defence got the credit they deserved for the Cardiff game, however, Newcastle were poor St Ed, they are no comparison to Cardiff. As much as we agree to disagree I think away from home we will see very much the same old thing.

      • Academy of Football

        Newcastle are poor and I think it’s very hypocritical reading Pardews comments on how we play considering the long balls his team also played.
        I watched the game and we were the better team but it had no imagination it was very boring. A better team will score and we’ll have no answer as Sam has no plan B to get us back. Replacing Cole for Nolan and playing football through the middle more may have opened up Newcastle but no put him on the wing to pump balls in the box for Nolan and Maiga to get nowhere near (bar Nolans miss).

  • Academy of Football

    Out of our Academy I still see Tomkins as our brightest hope as an England player, Collison is never going to be the same, Noble is stale and not improving, Spence has slept with Allardyces wife and will never get a chance to progress, plays well one week and then instantly dropped. Potts is well down the pecking order but has a little promise.
    I think Tomkins progress is stalling under Sam unfortunetely and he needs to move on for the sake of his career and ambitions. Collins is a great defender but loves a hoof and Reid is different gravy now playing regularally.

    • Academy of Football

      ps please note I know Collison is Welsh

      • Headmaster1

        Apologies, AoF, but the Spence thing crossed the line mate. I have NO idea whether or not it is true but at the end of the day anything that could see either you or us end up in court ain’t worth it, fella. Cool?

        • Academy of Football

          No worries point taken. Spence has never let the team down in my opinion and then never seen from again. I’m not saying he has IT but he’s never looked too out of depth.

    • Tom

      I think if BFS could rid the club of Noble, Collison, Tomkins, Potts and Spence then he would, not one of them suit his game plan. However, I actually think this is where David Gold steps in, he might publicly support BFS but Sullivan has said he only supported BFS out of desperation and i think he has been the one to keep Tomkins in particular at the club.

      It makes interesting reading that Downing was interested in Newcastle’s offer until their transfer policy stopped the move. You have to ask the question of ‘at what point do we say no’ to too many older players that hog the wage bill and have no sell on value

      • Ann

        If Sam were top get rid of the above named players then i’m certain Tony Carr would leave the club. It would certainly cause ripples in the boardroom.

        • Tom

          Ann, for all the negative abuse David Gold receives this is an area i do not see him moving on, he would rather force BFS out than sell the academy products

  • GrahamAussie

    For those that give a hoot our pint sized saviour Mr.Sullivan has launched a statement on the official website,he is up for the Nobel Prize with this English lit adventure!

    • Academy of Football

      I just hope a midget foreign striker does not come in to waste a space. Spence should be released now and Collison is surplus surely Cardiff would like him. Vaz is Championship but a forward still.
      Downing has not been an international for a while, I supose if we signed Kevin Davies he would be classed as an international after playing one game!!!

      • Tom

        There is a case for many to go AoF, Taylor, vaz Te, Spence, Diarra and Collison are all candidates but like DS says, wanting them to move and actually moving them are two different things. How desperate were we to poach Matty Taylor, what wage package did we offer and over how many years … we have a track record of paying silly money. The book two years ago showed Brady had trimmed virtually £40m off the debt only for Sullivan to blow it all on a flawed season of transfers and wages.

        • Academy of Football

          I have no issue with the premiership players being paid a little more to drop down to the Championship. Taylor has served his purpose now mind and needs to leave. Diarra will be loaned out if anything although I think he would offer solidness in out midfield and cover for defence. Surely the others are not on the highest wage and could be tempted.
          We have spent a lot of money on some players that the top 6 were not even interested in for over inflated prices.

    • Tom

      Graham, did you read his interview on KUMB, he firmly puts the ball in BFS’s court for the wage structure. Now had we bought Bony in with Sinclair from Citeh and Matty Phillips from Blackpool we would still have scope to manouevre within the wage structure. Alas we got Downing because the Geordies would not pay the ransom in wages for a 29 year old with no sell on value and broken the bank to fit in a target man that will be played out of position to suit another over paid BFS signing.

      I think the finger of blame has to be steered towards BFS on the transfer front, some love his style, they are very few and far though, if Razvan Rat is so good why hasn’t he started ? how much in wages to warm the bench ? if I am correct, we paid Carol’s wages last season, so you have to ask the question of what is our transfer policy ?

      • Academy of Football

        The policy was to get a lump up front to hit his head and two wingers renowned for crossing, that was the basis of out purchases. Why Joe Cole was signed I still believe was not a Sam purchase.

        • Tom

          I don’t think half the squad are his signings, if he wanted Razvan Rat so much why play JOB out of position ahead of him, Cole for me was a DG signing to appease the fans pissed off at the style we were watching, again how much on another 30+ player then Ravel Morrison who’s add on’s are not cheap, Sullivan admitted he was his gamble, then you have Diarra and Maiga who do not fit in either.

          How much more must we waste whilst moaning we have a debt to pay. What made me laugh most over on WHTID was when I broached the subject of DS mortgaging our TV money in more loans to fund new signing like Jarvis, Carol and co everything went quickly to a new thread … I appreciate what they have done, however, I have not forgotten the mess they caused in the first place and as for the OS stadium, this is a white elephant that could potentially destroy the fan base and condemn ou club to the lower league forever. It is quite simply not fit for football viewing from the upper tiers.

          • Academy of Football

            I wonder if its because he wants to play the same team which did so well last year or he cannot justify dropping either JOB or Demel, a left footed left back we’ve been crying out for for a long time.

      • Headmaster1

        As Celtic said, it is a total ‘eggs in one basket’ strategy. We have paid silly money for a target man who is not a prolific goal scorer and this has hindered both our playing style and our ability to attract other strikers. I have no doubt either that this is almost entirely a Sam Allardyce decision. Add to that the fact that he is injured and we have no real idea when he is likely to be fit again since the club utterly fail in terms of giving out any genuine or useful information.

  • Nangila Foskett

    Wow what a great site to be in headmaster, must give your mate matt a pat on the back and a nice cold beer one day. Love the comments on your latest post and knowing my luck you won’t see this as probably gone onto another one.

  • bubbles

    Tomkins is not good enough . Some clown says he is best centre half in the country so be careful at the next home game …. you might trip over his blind dog !!

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